Either Up or Down? We'd Spin In Circles!

How fantastic it is to hear from Fire and Light. I am excited in part because the White Table is so encouraging for me to better study the scriptures and gospel teachings. As I read Fire's entry, I realized that my "mind has been on the things of the earth more than on the things of [Him]" (DC 30:2) as of late and I my referencing and reading is embarrisingly rusty. I hope the White Table will forgive me and rekindle my Fire and show me the Light. Quickly, I'd like to suggest a few "housekeeping" ideas for the White Table blog. I suggest that we comment on a single subject until we are ready to move to a different subject. This means that we do not click "new post" as both Light and I have done to discuss Fire's post, instead we click "comment" at the bottom of Fire's post. We will post back and forth until we are ready for another post, or until someone has another question/idea and wants to get a second or third chain going on. That leads me to another idea. We should only have 2-3 active posts, I think. This way we go to the deaper ends of each subject instead of always creating new posts which probabaly leads to overstretch and disinterest. This being said, lets give it a shot. Future comments regarding Fire's post, or Light's response or my response should be made as "comments" underneath my post (since it is the most recent and therefore at the top of the blog). Once we've discussed this for a week or two, or however long we want, we will creat a brand new post and begin commenting there. Does that make sense? Hopefully.

Fire had a very intriguing post, and Light's response was likewise enlightening. The concept of individual VS absolute truth is fascinating. If truth is individual, it threathens the veracity of everything we adhere to. If truth is absolute, there must be clear disctinctions and no ifs ands or buts. Here are my thoughts on the matter:

Fire's post is well supported by scripture and the temple. One that comes to mind is D&C 46:7 which states, "But ye are commanded in all things to ask of God, who giveth liberally; and that which the Spirit testifies unto you even so I would that ye should do in all holiness of heart, walking uprightly before me, considering the end of your salvation, doing all things with prayer and thanksgiving, that ye may not be seduced by evil spirits, or doctrines of devils, or the commandments of men; for some are of men, and others of devils." Also, I know from very personal and real feelings that I most definitely have felt a consistent "ebb and flow" of my spirituality as I make decisions in life. I would say that my life, I assume like most) resembles that of a sound wave. The crest of the said wave could represent the times of great spiritual growth and the trough is times of relative darkness. I hope, that the wave is sloping in a gradual upward direction so that the crests get higher and the troughs do too. This cycle seems normal, and is discussed throughout the scriptures i.e. pride cycles. So, to be clear, I definitely think that Fire's comments are on target and I agree with him in general. But....what would the White Table be without some decenting voicing. Decenting may not be the right word, and neither would "devil's advocate", but how about some critical thinking and "opposition in all things?" Here is my beef:

There are some weeknesses with the argument that "with every choice we make we are either moving forward or backward." First, if we assume that each decision does indeed add or subtract from our spirituality, and we agree that there is an infinite number of decisions possible to make (or at least lots and lots) then we are implying that there is an infinite (or lots and lots) of levels of spirituality and that none are on the same level unless they have made the EXACT same decisions throughout life. Apply this logic to the Prophets. We know that Joseph was a "choice" seer, and that Adam is the Patriarch, and many other's have special callings in Heaven. Which one is higher? Are some latter-day prophets worse than others? Imagine heavenly father lining them up in order of righteousness. The image doesn't sit well with me. What I'm trying to illustrate, is that the idea that "with EVERY choice we are either moving forward or backward" leaves no room for triviality. If I like raspberries, but not strawberries, and I choose to eat the former, but not the latter, in which direction does this decision send me? If President Monson likes chocolate ice cream, but President Hinckley liked vanilla, who will have the upper hand at the last day with respect to ice cream? Christ probably had a beard, longer hair, and simple clothes. Are we all to be judged critically for our decisions to wear jeans and t-shirts? These examples are clearly simple, trivial, and obviously facetious, but the logic is the same as that presented by Fire. My point: some decisions in life must be trivial. It is easy to see that decisions concerning fruit, ice cream, etc. seem silly and not of eternal consequence, but this logic becomes more troublesome when we apply it to more controversial decisions i.e. The Dark Knight.

I want to be clear that moral relativity is not my position. Some things are right, some things are wrong. And I believe that one of life’s great challenges is to discern them and live accordingly. But I am not able to agree, in full, that ALL decisions move us forward or backward. I never thought that I would be advocating in behalf of the “grey” team, but I do indeed think that some things are “grey areas”. Maybe grey isn’t the right word because grey is simply white with a bit of black. And we are challenged to cleans “every whit.” But I’m not convinced that one who watches Disney Pixar films and nothing else is worse than one who watches nothing at all. In fact, the notion that seeing NO film is better at all is suspect to me. I would agree, however, that he who watches anything is definitely going to see clearly “black” material that can be deemed wrong, or bad. That I am sure of. Many, maybe most, films are not innocent or trivial.

Another argument is that if each and every decision we make brings us closer or pushes us further from righteousness, would it not be rational to identify those activities that progress us further/faster than others and then devote our entire energy to that activity? For example, would it not be rational, therefore, to spend every free moment at the temple instead of service? Or reading our scriptures instead of anything else? Are we to believe that our Heavenly Father wants us to be non-social beings, but spiritual giants? Is that possible? President Monson chose to attend a Jazz game recently. He could have chosen to study the scriptures. Was his progressions slowed for this decision? Its tough for me to believe that each and every decision has affect on our progression/digression, and it is especially difficult for me to believe that every good decision is both better and worse than another good decision. Which decision is optimal?

We understand that there are 3 degrees of glory and multiple levels of glory in each kingdom. But if each decision brings us closer or further from righteousness, our places in heaven would only be justified if we each had our own, right? Are we to understand that some people will barely make it into a given degree of glory, while others make it with ease? An example of this is one who receives an A grade for his 94%, and one who receives a 98% but still gets only an A. Is one really better off?

What about the differences of opinions and choices amongst the brethren? I know they are not in opposition with each other, but they definitely are not clones either. They make, and have made, many different choices but all are worthy to be special witnesses of Christ. The same discrepancy exists between bishops, mission presidents, relief society leaders, stake presidents etc, as I talked about in my first DK post. I find it audacious to believe that one mission president who allows missionaries to listen to ONLY hymns is any more righteous or right than one who allows hymns AND classical music. This example is the same as that of no movies or Disney Pixar ones only.

Also, we know that the gift of discernment is given to some, but not all since “all have not every gift given unto them” (D&C 46:11, see 1 Cor. 12: 7-10) Some people may genuinely not be as sensitive to the spirit as others but are equally as righteous, since their gift may be a different gift i.e. gift of faith, gift of leadership, gift of tongues.

In conclusion, I want to state that I have beef with my own comments. I feel that they are 2 parts philosophy of men 1 part mingled scripture. I have not sited many sources, which is clearly the most effective way to defend one’s position. But, I don’t think that my thinking is therefore entirely bunk. One question/concern I have felt while writing this is that of the NEED for an opposition in all things. What exactly does that mean? Could understanding the deeper meaning of agency help us answer this debate of individual vs. absolute truth? This is a hot topic. I’m interested to hear back. Mind you that the position I have taken is felt by me, but not necessary to the full extent to which I have written. So…..let the Whiteness begin.

Don't forget the good that can come from bad!

First off, thank you Rev for setting this up and Fire for putting up the first gospel post. I have great hopes for this blog and hope it is something that we can carry on for years and even decades to come. I hope that through this we can be enlightened and become open to new ideas whatever the may be.

Fire – posted “if I choose never to see another movie again in my life, will that keep me ahead in my quest for light and knowledge than someone who only watches Disney-Pixar films? And will the Nemo-Woody-addict be ahead of someone who will watch anything?”

Like you Fire, I believe that we are never at a stand still and we are either growing towards god or going in a diverse direction. Similar to the all too famous “moon” quote, we are either waxing (i.e. growing in spirituality) or waning (i.e loosing spirituality.) But I also think great things can come from bad moments, situations and acts. It sometimes takes “troughs” or down times in our lives as Screwtape would say to realize why we seek or want “high’s” in our lives. On a different note there is something to say about never giving into temptation. When I was a sophomore in high school, my bishop Dave Dunford asked me in an interview if I had drank alcohol or any substance like that? I responded to him that I had never even tasted it and he told me that I would be blessed immensely for the rest of my life if I never even take a sample taste. When he told me this, I was hit hard and realized the many blessing that are ours if we refrain from temptation all together. Conversely to that idea I have seen batman three times now. Believe me Rev and Fire, I’m not one who really like comics and movies associated with them but I had an opportunity to see it on opening night and made the decision to go. Consequently, I have seen two more times because I loved it so much.

Batman is an extremely dark movie about good vs. evil. In the movie there are haunting scenes of horrible acts of evil but through it all the light still shines forth. Near the end of the movie Alfred explains to Batman that he needs to be whatever Gothom needs him to be. If he needs to be the hated one, then that is okay because it allows the people of Gothom to prove their worth in goodness. By doing so he is doing a greater good for the people then just being a super hero. Essentially Alfred is teaching a lesson on selflessness and paralleling it to life of the Savior. Upon finishing the movie I left extremely uplifted and hopeful of society and had much more gratitude for my savior and his role in the plan of salvation. I share this experience because I feel that Batman at face value probably isn’t something that most of us would look at and say “that will bring me closer to God,” and I agree. On the other hand, good can be derived from anything and even the most horrible and daunting things can be turned into positive uplifting things. That’s not to say that we should seek negative situations, nonetheless I feel that we can gain light and knowledge through acts that normally appear unspiritual. President Hinkley probably was the greatest figure we’ve ever known that encouraged us to be positive and optimistic in times of bad and to seek the good in everything.

Either Up or Down

I begin the first White Table Post with some disquietude. I hope that the discussion is as enlightening as were the many conversations had around the White Table, with steaming chicken bowls before us.
I thought it would be appropriate to begin the White Blog with a discussion about progression and individual versus absolute truth. Are we always rising or falling? Does everything we think, say, or do (which include the senses of watch and hear) draw us nearer or further us more from Christ?
My argument is that, yes, everything takes us closer or further from God. Alma asks, "If ye are not the sheep of the good shepherd, of what fold are ye? Behold, I say unto you, that the devil is your shepherd." (Alma 5:39) Moroni says that "the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil" (Mor 7:16). It sounds to me from these two verses that you are either the devil's sheep or the Savior's sheep and that good and evil are the same for every man.
How individual is progression in light and knowledge? If I decide to do something that either adds or takes away from my light and knowledge, would you experience the same result upon taking the same action? I'm thinking beyond the specific commandments that we know will add or take away from our light (e.g. breaking the law of chastity or not paying tithing).
For example, if I choose never to see another movie again in my life, will that keep me ahead in my quest for light and knowledge than someone who only watches Disney-Pixar films? And will the Nemo-Woody-addict be ahead of someone who will watch anything? Were the Anti-Nephi-Lehis better than the other Nephites because they buried their weapons of war? Or were they just making different choices, both of which can take them to exaltation? One more hypothetical, outside the media. If you bike to work, are you gaining more light and knowledge than someone who drives?
I believe that God is the same yesterday, today and forever (1 Ne. 10:18). I believe that good is good and bad is bad, no matter your background or personal preferences. I believe that with every choice we make we are either moving forward or backward. Amulek teaches that "every whit points to the great and last sacrifice" (Alma 34:14), in 3rd Nephi we learn that those who performed miracles were cleansed "every whit" from iniquity (3 Ne. 8:1). I believe that in order to achieve that state, everything we choose to see, smell, think, read, watch, say, hear, and do should bring us closer to Christ.
Now, let the White Table, and others who feel so inclined, speak.

The Return of The Table!

After many years in darkness, Light. After many years of empty cold, Fire. After many years of chaos, Reverence. The Table has returned. Come one, come all, and let us begin the welcoming as we anticipate a White future at the Table. Light, Fire, Reverence...the Table is back.